In this episode, Matthew talks to Dr David Scott from The Open University. David's research interests include the ethical foundations of penal abolitionism; the historical relationship between penal abolitionism and the politics of social justice; and anti-carceral approaches to prisons, punishment and the social harms of state-corporate power. His books include Against Imprisonment , Controversial Issues in Prisons, Why Prison?, The International Handbook of Penal Abolition and his latest book is entitled For Abolition.