Carl Gershman was the founding president of the National Endowment for Democracy, serving in that position from 1984 to 2021. Jay talks with him about his life: starting with his boyhood in New York. Along the way, Gershman touches on Max Shachtman, Sidney Hook, Leszek Kołakowski, Pat Moynihan, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Ronald Reagan, Natan Sharansky . . . Wonderful stories, wonderful points—grave and important issues.