EP 191 - Shiny Happy People Pt 2 w/Everett

17 de jul. de 2023 · 1h 20m 43s
EP 191 - Shiny Happy People Pt 2 w/Everett

Notes about this episode from Dave:  My background in IBLP ATI - attended a SBC church in Texas that was jokingly referred to as a Gothard church by the members...

mostra más
Notes about this episode from Dave:  My background in IBLP ATI - attended a SBC church in Texas that was jokingly referred to as a Gothard church by the members and those who knew it. Did Alert Cadets (similar to Trail Life/Boy Scouts) which was a bunch of dads and sons doing Boy Scouts stuff but more Christian than BS. After hearing about Life Focus I applied and was a part of that program when I was 14 and again with Life Focus Advanced when I was 15. Those programs was a sort of juvenile delinquent reform program which included being on work details and working the entire 9 weeks while memorizing the book of James. I was the worst kid of the 20 or so that were there, graduating after my Dad flew in to pick me up (they issued you a LF shirt once you proved yourself). Got thrown into solitary confinement and they did a thing called voice-lockdown, applying the whole “Be still and know that I am God” verse literally for 2 weeks).   After that experience I was invited to Life Focus Advanced. Even though I had nothing great to say about my time at Life Focus I begged my parents to let me go to LF Advanced. Attended that and it was a whole different level of psychological and spiritual twisting and trauma.  Got locked in solitary confinement again for reacting in anger to my LIT.   Attended ALERT when I turned 18 - it was physically the most brutal thing I had ever done. I dropped out of basic training during the 24 hour hike (yeah they hike with full packs on for 24 hours straight with breaks for meals). I went through a remediation program and requested to do the next basic training due to my Dad’s encouragement to not let this beat me. I made it through that basic training and took the EMT/Firefighting track and graduated in 2004.   Finally attended Verity Institute and met my wife there. Got my bachelor degree and made some good friends I’m still in contact today.   So to wrap up - did Alert Cadets from my 11th birthday 1997ish (didn’t mention we attended the national conference in Knoxville in 2000) and ended my time with IBLP/ATI in 2011.

Issues with the organization and it’s objectives:
  • Basic Seminar (their entrance seminar) systematizes everything into prooftexts for how and why you should live and the goal = success (a different type of prosperity gospel)
  • A very literal reading of prooftexts that can go any which way the leader wants it to go
  • All law, no gospel
  • Christianity is behavior modification, period (not being hyperbolic)
  • Confusing sanctification and justification
  • Predatory nature of the authority - Bill Gothard surrounded himself with young very pretty girls at HQ and seeing he was “God’s Anointed One” few spoke against it and if they did, they were gone
  • The umbrella of protection - if we live or act a certain way the devil can gain access…also the dad is the mediator between Christ and the mom/kids
  • The group-mentality - once people get into a herd, whatever that herd values, the members will tend to one up themselves to be the most excellent/extreme - which lead to some very messed up programs and teachings with zero oversight
  • No hermeneutic in sight - if I think the verse means X…well it does, because I’m the one running the program (doesn’t only apply to Bill Gothard, but to those running other programs as well)
  • Grace/Gospel tended to sound/smell like antinomianism. Unsure how to handle the concept of Christian liberty and grace.
  Issues I’m still dealing with:
  • I understand where my Dad was coming from. He saw a bunch of dads and sons camping and doing daily devotions around a campfire and was like, “This is what I’m not seeing at my local church with the youth group leader eating goldfish…I want more of this.” Upon jumping in and seeing the basic seminar, without a strong theological background, it kinda made sense on it’s face. Fundamentalist churches were tackling more issues than the basic John 3:16 one. Issues like modesty, male and female relationships, music, daily devotions, how much TV is the right amount, drinking, etc. These check boxes appealed to those who were very analytical/engineering types like my dad. And why not jump in deeper, you’re going from milk to meat right?
  • I understand the community that he was looking for. IBLP/ATI offered that along with a bunch of shiny happy people who were very respectful, dressed well, and worked very hard.
  • These things were all very attractive - so how do we “then” live that separates the piles of “filthy rags” that is our personal righteousness but at the same time speaks to many verses in the Bible that seems to indicate that sanctification takes work (John 14:15, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.”) Is fruit inspection biblical or is it just measuring one’s sanctification against another?
  • I tend to find myself spiraling into an obnoxious Reformed Pub person - is it a sin to do BLANK? But let’s dig in a bit
    • Is it a sin to have standards for your family and how they live and have expectations for them to make certain choices and if they don’t, to be disappointed in them, seeking to restore them
    • Is it a sin to read the Bible daily? Is it a sin to read it once a week? Is it a sin to get so habitual with Bible reading that you start to worry if you miss a day here or there?
    • Music - can listening to certain music be sinful
    • Language - are naughty words sinful
    • What does it mean to keep the Sabbath holy? Can you sin doing that? Where’s the line
    • What keeps us from turning into easy believe-ism nominal Christians? Shouldn’t we have some sort of safeguards to keep us a peculiar people? Shouldn’t we work to not be like the culture?
    • How do reformed people deal with legalism? Are there legalistic reformed peeps or is this more a fundy thing within IFB/SBC circles?
    • Why is Michael Horton so dang sexy?
  A big error in the IBLP/ATI environment was the basic seminar was ALL about me being successful and what I needed to do to attain that. It’s me centered, and I probably could not do enough. My righteousness had to exceed Bill Gothard’s who fasted 40 days at a time and was single to serve God.  
mostra menos
Autor Bacon Bibles Barbells
Organización Bacon Bibles Barbells
Página web -

Parece que no tienes ningún episodio activo

Echa un ojo al catálogo de Spreaker para descubrir nuevos contenidos.


Portada del podcast

Parece que no tienes ningún episodio en cola

Echa un ojo al catálogo de Spreaker para descubrir nuevos contenidos.


Portada del episodio Portada del episodio

Cuánto silencio hay aquí...

¡Es hora de descubrir nuevos episodios!

Tu librería